Sweetened tuning for an Emmons PP

[Roy Peterman]

I was just wondering what the preferred sweetened tuning is for PP owners. I have tried the SE9/SEP sweetened tuning in my strobo stomp, but it doesn't quite do the trick. I assume it is because I have less cabinet drop in my PP versus the SKH I have (which the SE9/SP9 works great). Thanks!

[Mike DiAlesandro]

Hi Roy,

I use the SH9 settings (Sid Hudson) sweetened tuning on my Emmons P/P guitars. With the exception of the F# on string 4, C pedal. I tune that, pedal down with the harmonic on the 7th fret of C#, which matches the 5th fret (C#)harmonics on string 5.

This is designed for use on guitars with very minimal cabinet drop.

Hope you like it!

[Roy Peterman]

Thanks very much Mike, I will give it a try.
Roy

[Val Drummond]

Roy,
I’ve been tuning my P/P using the EM9/EP9.
Here’s a link below for Shane Frame Sessions.

https://youtu.be/1dNnysqVh68?si=-Iv-kdY06MaVbN3G

[Dave Magram]

Hi Roy,

Here's a logical and brilliant suggestion from Larry Bell that would take about 30 seconds to test...

I have found Larry Bell’s tuning method to work very well, since it centers around E at “440” (“straight-up” on tuner), but automatically compensates for any degree of cabinet drop on your individual guitar—which no other method seems to do.
Very clever, Larry!

DETAILS:
http://www.larrybell.org/id32.htm
http://www.larrybell.org/id29.htm

**********************************************************
Larry Bell
http://www.larrybell.org/id32.htm

Tune the E chord to compensate for detuning (cabinet drop, axle flex, etc.)

1. Push your A and B pedals and release a few times, then HOLD THE A & B PEDALS DOWN (ENGAGED).
Tune the E notes to be STRAIGHT UP (440 Hertz; zero deflection) WITH BOTH THE A and B PEDALS ENGAGED

2. Release your A and B pedals (NO PEDALS ENGAGED)
Check your E strings. They are likely to be 4-8 cents sharp (441-442 on the Hertz scale)
Tune the open B strings the same offset as the E's; if the E's are 4 cents sharp, tune the B's 4 cents sharp

(Rest of instructions at: http://www.larrybell.org/id32.htm )

**********************************************************
I have been using Larry's method for many years with great success, in combination with Jeff Newman's original "440" tuning chart.

What I think is so brilliant about Larry's method is that because different guitars have different levels of cabinet drop, Larry's method automatically compensates the offset of the B and E strings to any level of cabinet drop, depending on the offset needed for that specific guitar.

As you probably know, back in the 1970's, Jeff Newman purchased a then-new product, the Peterson Strobe Tuner. Jeff asked Lloyd Green to tune his guitar and once it was tuned to Lloyd's satisfaction, Jeff measured all of the open strings and then measured the strings with the pedals and knee levers engaged.

Based on those measurements, Jeff Newman's original tuning chart had the E strings tuned at the "440" straight-up position.
● It never made sense to me to use an arbitrary offset such as the second tuning chart Jeff Newman created a few years later--where the E strings are tuned to the "442.5" position-- apparently to accomodate for "generic" cabinet drop on one guitar in Nashville .
● Larry Bell's clever idea adjusts the needed offset to accomodate for the degree of cabinet drop uniquely specific to any player's guitar--not one "generic" benchmark guitar.

[Interestingly, Larry had several pedal steel guitars--all of them Emmons push-pulls. ]

It only takes a few minutes to try out Larry Bell's tuning methodology--I was glad that I did!
(BTW, I just use a simple Boss TU-12 Chromatic Tuner to tune--with a little notecard taped inside its cover, to remind me of the correct tuning offsets for each string.)

- Dave

[Roy Peterman]

Dave and Val, thanks for your responses and recomendations. I tuned my steel guitars for years very similar to your tuning method, Dave. I have a Seiko tuner which I have had for years and tuned the E strings with the pedals down and then tempered tuned the other strings to the E's. It does work pretty well, but in having a strobo stomp tuner now I have found it is easier to tune when there is a bunch of noise going on (like a guitar player riffing out while you are trying to tune) LOL! I just want to see what sweetened tuning will best match the push pull I have. Thanks so much!

[Joel Jackson]

I switched to OE9 when I started playing a pushpull, tuning the E strings with no pedals. Sounds in tune to me as long as I haven't had too many cold ones.

[Lee Baucum]

It only takes a few minutes to try out Larry Bell's tuning methodology--I was glad that I did!

Yes, I was happy to run across his website and read his tuning method. It's very close to what I was using, pushing things as close to "straight up" ET as possible. In my case, E's and B's are tuned to 441. I'm able to tune the F#s to 440 (no compensators) and they behave well with various combinations of pedals and knee-levers.

My tuning scheme is saved on the Peterson web-site as LEE.

[Dave Grafe]

I'm highly satisfied with the Newman SC6/SP6 on my StoboHD, using on both push-pull and all-pull guitars.

[Roy Peterman]

Thanks for all the replies. I am still experimenting with all the suggestions and it has been fun to see how they affect the tuning. I only added a compensator to my push pull on the 7th string on the E9th neck Lee. I have none on the C6th neck. I added compensators to both necks on my SKH, and found (Dave Grafe) that the SE9/SP9 and SC6/SP6 worked very well for that guitar. On another note, I'm sure Dave that you probably know an old friend of mine in your area; Tiny Olson? He is a mighty fine picker and a nice guy to boot! Thanks.

[Lane Gray]

If you're going to try to get the a pure-sounding JI, every guitar will want its own tuning, because cabinet drop and just the way each guitar resonates will want slightly different compensations.

That said, I don't believe in that any longer. Your guitar player will be close to ET, the keyboard player will be very much ET, and the fiddle player will probably be ET but with flatted thirds. So it's only going to matter in the basement. Even though I can remember every single offset from my push-pull (lost to a burglar in 1989), I have gone to "barely sweetened;" putting every note straight up, except for the following, which go 4-6 cents flat because they're primarily major thirds (I use a needle, not a strobe): G#, A#, C#, D# E#. Yes, I know E# SHOULD be flatted twice since it's the third to the already flatted C#, but naah.