Volume Pedal.....Wide Open or Not

[Antolina]

As usual, Dave Doggtett explains it concisely.

[Brint Hannay]

Volume pedal technique generally relates more to the E9th than C6th. A close listen to Buddy Emmons's "Black Album" will show that, on the E9th cuts, he uses the volume pedal for sustain, and for (subtle) swells, but there's always plenty of pick attack.

I agree with those who've said, or implied, that Jeff Newman only recommended the "maxed-out" approach as a temporary corrective to force students not to OVER-use the volume pedal.

The v.p. is undeniably useful, once in a while, as a "mistake eraser", but that use should be applied with great restraint!

[tom anderson]

As I heard my friend Darryl Logue tell a soundman one night-"it's not a volume pedal-it's an expression pedal."

[jerry harkins]

I remember Buddy Emmons say at a seminar one time, useing a pot pedal, that he liked to play at 3\4 volume because that was where the sweet spot seem to be for the best tone.
I agree with that.

Jerry

[Dave Mudgett]

My volume pedal technique is influenced a lot by what I'm playing.

I completely agree with Donny, David D. and others that when playing a sensitive ballad, leaving significant headroom in the volume pedal works best for me. Exactly where to set the "nominal" position is not exactly obvious, and probably depends on the interaction between the steel, pickup, volume pedal, effects, and amp - I agree with the idea that it should be a fairly "sweet" spot. But for me, at least, that sweet spot depends on every little thing in the rig. Since I use a pot pedal, I probably lean more to the 3/4-on nominal position because the brilliance comes down somewhat as the volume comes down, but if I want to really lay way back for the vocals and have more headroom for swells, I might pull it pretty far back.

With faster clean material - say a hard country shuffle or mid-tempo Americana or folk-rock tune - I tend to use the VP less, but still keep a very clean tone - leaving myself some headroom above for solos or louder fills, but with lots of room below to get out of the way of the singer or other soloists.

On the other hand - playing faster stuff and especially more blues and rockin' material through a tube amp is a totally different animal - and I'm sometimes expected to do that. A significant element of sustain comes from the amp running hotter, and I tend to set things up so that when the volume pedal is floored, I get my lead tone and don't blow everyone off the stage with extreme volume.

One more opinion, as usual.

[chris ivey]

.......not!........

[Mike Poholsky]

I developed a bad habit of trying to cover up my poor right hand technique, by using the VP way too much. Ended up having very eratic right foot technique. A while back I had my VP go out half way through a gig. The rest of that evening playing without a VP I realized (in a glaring way) what I was doing. I now do quite a bit of practicing without a volume pedal, trying to control volume and SOME tone with my right hand. I now feel the VP should have minimal use. When I solo I turn it up and leave it there and try to use my right hand for more control. If this hasn't happened to you, I highly recommend plugging straight into your amp for a song or two some evening. It will really show you how your using your VP.

[Mitch Ellis]

Steve,
When you say "with the petal all the way open" are you talking about all the way up (no volume position) or do you mean all the way down (Full volume position)?
Mitch

[Jim Sliff]

What volume pedal?

I just usually don't use one. I don't play much traditional sounding steel, but find the space taken up by the volume pedal is more useful for other devices. On my Fenders, if I need to tweak a volume control, I have one at my right pinky; I'm adding one to my GFI.

I think they can be used to great effect when used *sparingly*, but most players I've heard just pump the thing too much. I think you can become a FAR better player by "going bare" - at least for a while - and learning to vary your attack, use vibrato, and learn to work within the confines of the sustain of your particular instrument. Volume pedals on steel seem to be similar to compressors on 6-string; too many players learned with them to the point they are a crutch, and they can't play without one.

[Chris LeDrew]

I agree with Jim's philosophy, even though I use a volume pedal regularly. Many times, to test myself, I take my foot off it for several songs and leave it wide open. I have since discovered through this exercise that the palm of the hand is a great volume control. This exercise is also good for improving subtle pick attack. The force with which you pick is a major factor in volume (and tone) as well. With a palm-blocking pick technique, there is a lot of control available.

[Steve Broatch]

Hey Mitch,

By fully open I mean all the way down (full volume). Like opening up the throttle on a car when you put your foot down.

My point was the same as others have expressed. If you're starting out at max vol, then you can only choose to get quieter. I can understand people not using a volume pedal at all. It's down to personal preference. But using it in this way just seems like a bit of a waste of having it there in the first place.

Steve

[Stan Paxton]

Speaking for my way of using the vp would serve no good. But to consider what I think is proper and correct, is just to watch the greats. I have spent considerable time watching John Hughey, in my opinion one of the smoothest and most expressive players, along with Big E, Lloyd Green, Herby Wallace to name a few. And I have not observed (on slower smooth stuff) any of them just leaving the vp stationary either in the middle, 3/4, or at full on. The pedal is used almost with every attack to the strings, in very slight varying degrees. Not to be confused with pumping. ...So conclusion is to me, the vp is a big factor in the smooth, fine delivery of the music of psg. ...FWIW....

[Brint Hannay]

Jim, Did Sneaky Pete use a volume pedal? I was listening to The Legend and the Legacy and, with this thread in mind, noticed how part of the guitar-like sound he got came from the general absence of pedal-derived sustain.

[Doug Beaumier]

I agree with Donny and David. The volume pedal should be about halfway down for normal playing. After picking a chord, the pedal is pushed to about 3/4 to sustain the chord or the note, and then brought back to the mid position for picking. This movement should be very slight... barely noticable. That means the volume on the amp is set louder than it needs to be, and the volume pedal is used as a tool to create volume swells. Not 'pedal pumping'... very slight volume swells. That is part of the steel guitar sound. Stomping down on the pedal full bore for normal playing defeats the purpose of a volume pedal IMHO. A steel player should never 'bottom out' the volume pedal, in my opinion. When I see students doing that, I turn the amp up to about '8' and that cures the problem. The student Has to play with the pedal in the mid position, and he starts using the pedal as a 'floating volume control' to enhance the sound. If Jeff Newman told someone to play with the volume pedal all the way down, he was probably do so to force the player to correct some other problem, like pedal pumping or poor technique.

[Benjamin Cooley]

New pedal steel player here. I've been reading up on this subject recently, and recently started some of Jeff Newman's videos (appeared on Youtube). He does say to keep volume pedal open and set max volume of amp from there, primarily to avoid pumping and hiding the attack. Now I've watched other players and a lot of people seem to opt for the other approach—to leave extra room in the volume pedal to add sustain, but most of the "normal playing" happens at 50% of the pedal or wherever.

I've been trying this second approach and as a beginner I feel like it is hurting more than helping...when I leave lots of headroom, I'm more likely to hide the attack (pumping) and also can occasionally hit a note way too loud when volume pedal is at 80-90% open. I know this method takes practice and would probably come with time. But I think I'm going to focus on the Newman technique for now—you lose the ability for extra sustain, but I'm hoping to build good habits on picking and expression, and to not fall into the "pumping" fallback.

Anyways, enjoying reading everyone's take on it and learning new perspectives!

[Erv Niehaus]

I agree with Doug, keep the volume pedal at about half throttle.
That way you can go either direction, up or down.
When I am doing harmonics, I usually press down on the pedal to bring up the volume.
And visa-versa, if i hit a clinker I bring the volume down.
Erv

[Brian Willey]

As a new player struggling with the vp, I keep thinking I wish the pedal had a neutral resting place at about 50%-75% volume, but then had some type of resistance springs on both ends so that to go any louder or quieter you'd have to push a bit more with toe or heel, and then it would naturally return to neutral as soon as you relaxed. Of course, that would become quite an ankle workout on a longer session if the resistance wasn't super light.

For those who have used numerous types of vps, is there much difference in feel (volume arc, action, tension, etc.) between them? I have a Hilton and (at least under my poor control) it feels like it goes from quiet to loud too quickly. I know I'll get more control over time, but just curious if different pedals have kind of generally known characteristics, or if they're all pretty much the same.

[Bill Fisher]

Brian, that depends on whether the pedal uses an audio, or linear taper, potentiometer.

Bill Fisher

[Sam Inglis]

The volume pedal that came with my pedal steel had a spring that gently pulled it back to the minimum volume position if you didn't apply any foot pressure. I came to like that, and replicate the effect on other volume pedals by fixing an elastic band around the heel end. This has probably done terrible things for my technique.

[Paul Mozen]

This is a little off topic but...... Has anyone noticed a change in tone with volume pedal? Try plugging directly into amp and then with VP. I use and ernie ball VP Jr. I have a major improvement in tone without the vp.....?

[Stew Crookes]

This is a little off topic but...... Has anyone noticed a change in tone with volume pedal? Try plugging directly into amp and then with VP. I use and ernie ball VP Jr. I have a major improvement in tone without the vp.....?

All passive volume pedals will change the tone somewhat - pedals designed specifically for steel guitar tend to have a higher impedance pot which will work 'better' with a steel guitar's high output pickups.

I say 'better' because this sort of thing is subjective and case-specific, but you will notice that 'most' steel players with a passive pedal have a 500k ohm pot in it.

[Richard Sinkler]

For new players with the volume pedal "pumping" problem, a little tip that might help.

Before taking up the PSG, I was a rock drummer with a heavy bass drum foot. Controlling the volume pedal was like having a root canal with no novacaine.

What I did was take a 2x4 piece of wood and cut it to the length of my volume pedal, then attached a piece of wood at the end to make it the angle of the pedal in the volume off level. That allowed me to get my ankle to where it was easier to control. This also helps in picking technique to get better at controlling volume by your picking as some have mentioned here.

Once you have broken the habit of pumping and your ankle cooperates more, you add in the volume pedal and work on strengthening your ankle to where you can use the knee levers without your foot moving.

[Doug Beaumier]

This is a little off topic but...... Has anyone noticed a change in tone with volume pedal? Try plugging directly into amp and then with VP. I use and ernie ball VP Jr. I have a major improvement in tone without the vp.....?

Pot pedals rob some of the highs from the guitar. Try a Hilton volume pedal. There’s no pot, so you’ll get that “major improvement in tone” that you hear when you plug directly into your amp.

As far as playing with the volume pedal all the way down… that defeats the purpose of having a volume pedal. As I said in this thread many years ago, play with the pedal halfway down so you’ll have headroom to increase the volume as well as decrease the volume.

[Brett Day]

I've got a volume pedal bracket, so I want my volume not to be so loud since I can only hear out of my right ear, due to cerebral palsy, so I don't really leave the pedal wide open. When I was eighteen, nineteen, twenty years old, up until my early thirties, I thought playing loud was gonna be the best thing to do, and to me, I think the bar I used at the time had a lot to do with it, but now at 43, almost 44, I can play at a lower volume

[Bobby D. Jones]

I went in search of sustain a few years ago.
Someone posted the settings different players used on the Peavey amps at St. Louis show.
Buddy Emmons volume setting was like 9.
The only you tube video I can find of Buddy playing and you can see his volume pedal, Is Once Upon a Time it the West.
Some VP's only allow about 180 degrees (1/2 turn) of turning the pot shaft. Most pots will turn around 270 degrees (3/4 turn), From Off to Wide Open. I took one of my volume posts apart and changed it to about 270 Degree (3/4) turn. I worked so good for me, I now have 2 VP that turn 270 degrees.
A few weeks ago I was at a friends shop. He had an Emmons VP that hooks to pedal bar. It has 270 degrees pot turn, Not sure it is original. Or if it was changed by a previous owner.