Sho Bud Crossovers

[Kendell Scott]

Hey folks, did some digging through the archives and found lots of good information on these red headed stepchildren of the Sho Bud line, but the bulk of the discussions were from over a decade ago so I thought I might try to get some more current discussion going.

My main axe is a Crossover that’s been rebuilt into a 7x4 rack and barrel setup without the crossover, more akin to a Professional model. It’s got a polished metal frame as opposed to the more common unfinished black frames, and finished in a color that I’d describe as a brownish-green baby poop instead of the more common maple with card suits on the front. Great sounding guitar and stays in tune well once it’s settled in to the weather conditions of any gig I’ve taken it out on. Serial number 8060.

All I really know about it’s history is that Mike McGee down in Missouri had it and donated it to the Cord Fitch Memorial Steel Guitar Show in Mt. Vernon IL, where I was gifted it as their 2024 scholarship winner back in April. I’m curious as to any information about it that might help sort out a general timeframe it was manufactured in and if anyone would happen to recognize it and have any information on its previous life before it came to me.

I’ll throw up some pics in an Imgur link; I can’t for the life of me figure out how to include pics in a post.

Thanks for listening, folks.

https://imgur.com/a/J7j6FGh

[Ian Worley]

Based on the serial # that guitar was built late 1970 or perhaps very early '71. The serial numbers from that era went up ~8109, then they reset their numbering system to start at 1001 in March 1971. It's kind of an odd duck, Crossovers typically had wood wrap-around necks like the pic below, not an aluminum tailpiece like yours. Can you post a better pic that shows the tailpieces more clearly? The changer pillow blocks inside the aluminum tailpiece look similar to the normal late-model crossover style, but the mounting system is obviously different. It's possible that was just a mod done by someone along the way. There are guitars from around the same era with similar serial #s that are actually early Professionals, with the typical '70s cast tailpiece, this one is different though.



BTW, you can post your imgur links here, just copy the individual image links and put them inside "

[Ricky Davis]

Yes Ian; I agree, that is the very last year of Baldwin endorsement that is shown by Kendell's pics. You can see from my Mentor Lloyd Green; in this pic, is the pedal steel right after he turned in the NOW famous Fingertip. This was very late 1970 and says "Baldwin" on front right in pic.

It also had the "Metal Tailpiece" unlike the Crossover with wood-wraparound; as it was the introduction to the new "Sho~Bud" Model "The Professional"
Also this pic of Lloyd's D-10 Baldwin was his favorite sounding Sho-bud and is the one that he got Shot Jackson to remove the back neck to cut down on weight; as the producers did not want the C6 sound and Lloyd was recording 3 sessions a day all over Nashville area, carrying it around; so be it...then in 1973 they built the "LDG" from that idea.
Kendell; your Crossover is indeed the very last built under the distribution Endorsement by Baldwin for Sho~bud; very short time> 1967-1970(1)ish. and that "Custom Work" could of been that last year built or done later down the road like Ian suggests.(FWIW; there were many numbers of mechanical changes/ideas/custom...etc almost every month of 1970 as the transfer away from that endorsement had them busy...ah...ha..LOL)
Ricky

[Kendell Scott]

Hey Ian, here’s that closeup of the changer. I notice the block with the 4 screws is backwards compared to the pic you posted. Also note the ball ends that go through the finger as opposed to the more standard pins, similar to an old Gibson wrap tailpiece. I’ve never seen that on any other pedal steel, and I wonder why. Makes changing strings substantially easier than holding em on the pins.



Also thanks for the tip on posting pics. I’ve never been able to figure it out before!

[Moderator edit - I fixed the img tag - you have to link directly to an image, not to the image's html page.

[Kendell Scott]

Yes Ian; I agree, that is the very last year of Baldwin endorsement that is shown by Kendell's pics. You can see from my Mentor Lloyd Green; in this pic, is the pedal steel right after he turned in the NOW famous Fingertip. This was very late 1970 and says "Baldwin" on front right in pic.

It also had the "Metal Tailpiece" unlike the Crossover with wood-wraparound; as it was the introduction to the new "Sho~Bud" Model "The Professional"
Also this pic of Lloyd's D-10 Baldwin was his favorite sounding Sho-bud and is the one that he got Shot Jackson to remove the back neck to cut down on weight; as the producers did not want the C6 sound and Lloyd was recording 3 sessions a day all over Nashville area, carrying it around; so be it...then in 1973 they built the "LDG" from that idea.
Kendell; your Crossover is indeed the very last built under the distribution Endorsement by Baldwin for Sho~bud; very short time> 1967-1970(1)ish. and that "Custom Work" could of been that last year built or done later down the road like Ian suggests.(FWIW; there were many numbers of mechanical changes/ideas/custom...etc almost every month of 1970 as the transfer away from that endorsement had them busy...ah...ha..LOL)
Ricky

Hey Ricky, thanks for chiming in! Always great to hear from the resident Sho Bud guru around here. I thought I’d read somewhere that Lloyd’s original SD was a crossover with the back neck removed. Wouldn’t mind finding another crossover myself and converting it to have a G6 or A6 lapsteel/dobro type of non pedal tuning on the back neck to cut down weight. I feel like I’ve seen you on record as refusing to work on Crossovers.

Really cool to know that Lloyd dug the crossover tone. Glad I’m not the only one crazy enough to like these heavy things. Also cool to know that mine appears to be on the tail end of the run with Baldwin. It doesn’t say Baldwin anywhere on the guitar that I can find.

[Ricky Davis]

I feel like I’ve seen you on record as refusing to work on Crossovers.

Yes; I don't work on them mainly because there is so many linkage parts and a lot of the mechanics that are JUST NOT Available; and I'm not a machinist, so I can't make what I would like to refurbish it for the customer to play consistent in Current Times.
Ricky

[Kenny Davis]

Here's my 1971 Crossover. You may note that I had a LL knee added locally. Also, I haven't seen very many Sho~Buds with Grover pearloids. The solid black diamond inlay is also rare. It doesn't have the Baldwin decal, but I recall it was somewhere...maybe a sticker on the bottom??




Wile E. Coyote was my personal addition.

[Kendell Scott]

Here's my 1971 Crossover. You may note that I had a LL knee added locally. Also, I haven't seen very many Sho~Buds with Grover pearloids. The solid black diamond inlay is also rare. It doesn't have the Baldwin decal, but I recall it was somewhere...maybe a sticker on the bottom??




Wile E. Coyote was my personal addition.

That’s one sharp looking axe. My buddy Johnny Arview down in southern Illinois designed and machined a couple of levers for mine to make it a 7x4.

[K Maul]

I just bought one for $500 that was sitting in my pals garage. Ser#7270 with slotted rod adjusters, not hex.
It had been SERIOUSLY messed with. The “improvements” actually added to the weight and made it unplayable. I ripped it all out and put in baskets I had leftover from one I had many years ago. It’s not finished but my goal is to make it an SD10 with a very simple 3+2 setup. I had a spare pad that fit perfectly. It’s a cob job with parts on hand that are being heavily modified. When I’m done it MIGHT just work!

[Marco Schouten]

Yes Ian; I agree, that is the very last year of Baldwin endorsement that is shown by Kendell's pics. You can see from my Mentor Lloyd Green; in this pic, is the pedal steel right after he turned in the NOW famous Fingertip. This was very late 1970 and says "Baldwin" on front right in pic.

It also had the "Metal Tailpiece" unlike the Crossover with wood-wraparound; as it was the introduction to the new "Sho~Bud" Model "The Professional"
Also this pic of Lloyd's D-10 Baldwin was his favorite sounding Sho-bud and is the one that he got Shot Jackson to remove the back neck to cut down on weight; as the producers did not want the C6 sound and Lloyd was recording 3 sessions a day all over Nashville area, carrying it around; so be it...then in 1973 they built the "LDG" from that idea.
Kendell; your Crossover is indeed the very last built under the distribution Endorsement by Baldwin for Sho~bud; very short time> 1967-1970(1)ish. and that "Custom Work" could of been that last year built or done later down the road like Ian suggests.(FWIW; there were many numbers of mechanical changes/ideas/custom...etc almost every month of 1970 as the transfer away from that endorsement had them busy...ah...ha..LOL)
Ricky

Hey Ricky, thanks for chiming in! Always great to hear from the resident Sho Bud guru around here. I thought I’d read somewhere that Lloyd’s original SD was a crossover with the back neck removed. Wouldn’t mind finding another crossover myself and converting it to have a G6 or A6 lapsteel/dobro type of non pedal tuning on the back neck to cut down weight. I feel like I’ve seen you on record as refusing to work on Crossovers.

Really cool to know that Lloyd dug the crossover tone. Glad I’m not the only one crazy enough to like these heavy things. Also cool to know that mine appears to be on the tail end of the run with Baldwin. It doesn’t say Baldwin anywhere on the guitar that I can find.

Lloyd's guitar was a Baldwin Sho-Bud, but not a crossover. It did not have a lever which switched pedals and knee levers from one neck to the other. It's more of an ancestor of the Professional. Only very few were made.

[Jackie Anderson]

But was it built on the cast frame that the Crossover used?

[Marco Schouten]

But was it built on the cast frame that the Crossover used?

Yes, it had a cast frame.

[Gary Spaeth]

Kevin Maul check your messages.

[Howard Marcus]

I owned a crossover Dbl 10 Cast frame 6 pedals 1 knee Baldwin in the early 70s. Purchased it direct from Baldwin. The ES&S musical case co. located in Brooklyn NY was asked by Baldwin to produce a case for the Sho Bud Crossover. ES&S built cases for many instruments Gibson etc. A sample Dbl 10 was sent to ES&S, One of the owners Of ES&S was a friend of mine so i asked to purchase rather than they ship it back to Baldwin. Used it for many years, good guitar, great sound. Sorry no pics. Sold it 2001. Just a piece of history.

[Kenny Davis]

My case had rounded corners - How about yours?

[Howard Marcus]

yes i do believe the case had round corners

[Jerry Overstreet]

Interesting note concerning cases for the crossover guitars. I once bought a crossover from one of our local players. I took it to the ISGC later on to either sell it to Scotty's or put it on consignment.

Don Curtis told me they weren't interested in it, even though the guitar was like new, because it did not have the proper round cornered case.

The guy that bought it new was in our local steel club and he told me the standard rectangular Sho~Bud case was the one that it came in. He bought it new from the local downtown Louisville Baldwin dealer and music store so....I knew him well and I'm quite sure he knew what he was talking about.

[Bobby D. Jones]

You talked about the dog poo brownish/green color. At that time Sho-Bud, And Baldwin used food coloring to color body and neck wood to green, Red and some other colors. Many of the green colored steels, If they set where sunlight hit them, They turned to that strange brown/green color. If you ever have to pull one of the necks you may see its true color.

Good Luck in this project, Happy Steelin.

[Kenny Davis]

Kendell - Your "dog poo" guitar could well be a very special guitar -

guitar.jpg.png

Those hands belong to Hal Rugg. This supposedly was a modified Crossover, originally with wood around the changer and pickups, later changed to aluminum surround. It could very well be this guitar, black top with green front!

[Kendell Scott]

Hey Kenny,
Silas Hamilton reached out to me awhile back and asked for more pics cause he also thought it might be Hal’s, but he’s pretty sure it’s not. Bummer, would be cool if that woulda been where it came from.

[Howard Marcus]

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/it ... 57e2743f3f
Current add to sell a crossover!

[Rick Abbott]

Based on the serial # that guitar was built late 1970 or perhaps very early '71. The serial numbers from that era went up ~8109, then they reset their numbering system to start at 1001 in March 1971. It's kind of an odd duck, Crossovers typically had wood wrap-around necks like the pic below, not an aluminum tailpiece like yours. Can you post a better pic that shows the tailpieces more clearly? The changer pillow blocks inside the aluminum tailpiece look similar to the normal late-model crossover style, but the mounting system is obviously different. It's possible that was just a mod done by someone along the way. There are guitars from around the same era with similar serial #s that are actually early Professionals, with the typical '70s cast tailpiece, this one is different though."


I am pretty sure that the ones with the wood surrounding the changer are all from 1967-early1969. Basically the 1968 models. There were as many as 4 variations of the changer. The prototype and first version were surrounded. In 69 and 70 they were like a more like a Professional. The early Professionals were made at the same time as the last Crossovers. My Crossover is a 1967, and the prototype for the model. It's 23 inch scale, very odd. They made a few and then changed to the longer scale and better changer. Updated the cabinet and neck in early 69.

Some of that may be accurate! Who knows what ShoBud was doing around 1970?

[Ian Worley]

I am pretty sure that the ones with the wood surrounding the changer are all from 1967-early1969. Basically the 1968 models. There were as many as 4 variations of the changer. The prototype and first version were surrounded. In 69 and 70 they were like a more like a Professional. The early Professionals were made at the same time as the last Crossovers. My Crossover is a 1967, and the prototype for the model. It's 23 inch scale, very odd. They made a few and then changed to the longer scale and better changer. Updated the cabinet and neck in early 69.

Some of that may be accurate! Who knows what ShoBud was doing around 1970?

AFAIK, the wood wraparound neck guitars were all Crossovers (or the S10 model of that era). It would be cool to see some other examples of Crossovers without the wood wrap around neck if you have any. There are a few odd duck crossovers like Kendell's, or the Hal Rugg guitar, perhaps the Lloyd Green guitar above, but most (all?) the later guitars I've seen from that that era that had aluminum changer tailpieces were basically just early Professionals with different inlays, and simple end plates, not the bulky Crossover cast frame.

Early Crossovers had the racks ganged in groups of three or four, the later versions had the individual racks like the Professional and early 6139. The earliest Crossover I've seen had a short scale like you described, but with a roller bridge in front of the changer. Is yours one of those or does it have a more normal style changer? I don't think there were many built like that.

[Rick Abbott]

Ian, mine has the roller bridge. It kinda resembles a Fender.

Here's a thread from a million years ago, it has a few pictures of it.

viewtopic.php?p=994654#p994654